Catholic Fatherhood, growing in geekiness, holiness and intelligence.

kc0lex (Matthew). Get yours at

Friday, July 6, 2007

Atheism is logically self-defeating? YES!!

My wife and I talked last night afterwork and we got to talking about higher things, atheism and life not on this earth. Of course, I being a smart aleck, when my wife asked me if I thought life existed somewhere other than earth enthusiastically said, "YES!" Retort the obvious she said, "Well other than God and the Saints!" I again replied,, "YES!" This tottally took her aback until I told her she forget about the damned, the souls in purgatory and demons.

I said that while I think it is possible for life to exist on other planets I think it is highly improbable due to how closely everything has to line up for us to exist. This of course brought up the idea of intelligent design and somewhere atheism came in. I noted that atheism is a self-defeating purpose. So here I go, attempting to share that.....

First, let us assume that everything that is here just happened, no logical design and we just crawled up out of the muck. Human beings would be a series of basically organic computers. The limitation of these computers is that they are completely based on stimulus and response. What goes in gets processed and defines a return, now the software gets refined with every response but nothing comes out that doesn't come in. Now, let us proceed to imagination....

I am going to make the claim that we can only dream up things that are something that exists. We have to have stimulus to regurgitate it. Well, obviously this is not true because I just thought of a Pink Elephant in my head. Actually, I am taking the idea of Elephant and the idea of Pink and putting them together, I am Re-membering the parts together, imagination just puts thinks together that don't exist together.

Ok, so now if God doesn't exist how does the idea of God exist? The idea, infinite and omnipotent, are beyond the human experiencing and thus cannot be remembered or dreamed up. Sooooooooo, they must have been placed in the mind by something that can fathom being infinite and omnipotent, hmmmm, sounds like God to me.

Ok, so someone will object and say, "That is just a short circuit in the software, like the blue screen of death on your Window's PC." Well, then why don't people think of God and then fall over dead, why do people never connected to each other become able to understand at a finite level these concepts beyond them and why do people come up with comparable ideas in seperate places at seperate times uninfluenced by each other?

Lastly, that is the place where the gift of faith comes in. I hope this philosophic rambling has been helpful or enlightening or stirred your mind to think. I love you dearling (my wife that is) for being a great source of inspiriation to me. Oh, and if you want to hear a great talk abou atheism check out John Martignoni's Website, The Bible Christian Society, he has a great talk Called "Was Hitler Right?" that is available as MP3 here and tape/Cd here. He has tremendous resources available and keeps fees low so that Truth is accessible to all.

Under the Mercy,

Matthew S


Anonymous said...

It always amazes me how xtians can dismiss all the scientific evidence of evolution and yet somehow embrace the most convoluted logic and baseless conclusions to support what they already believe.

Jonathan said...

"I am going to make the claim that we can only dream up things that are something that exists."

Now why would you make that claim? You know, without anything to back it up with. How do we imagine logically impossible or contradictory things? Colourless green ideas sleep furiously?

"Ok, so now if God doesn't exist how does the idea of God exist? The idea, infinite and omnipotent, are beyond the human experiencing and thus cannot be remembered or dreamed up. Sooooooooo, they must have been placed in the mind by something that can fathom being infinite and omnipotent, hmmmm, sounds like God to me."

That would be Anselm's ontological proof for the existance of god. From 1078. Which was in fact refuted by one of his contemporaries. How can I imagine a perfect island? Or drink? Or anything?

Uriel said...

i can make up any number of things that don't exist, and things that are not merely this + that. It's called imagination. God is something you imagine because you're afraid of what you don't understand and can't control. Or maybe because you're a sheep and can't think beyond what grown ups told you in Sunday School.

Matthew S said...

interesting idea but you fail to demonstrate anything and bring up evolution without know what I believe about evolution...odd, are you trying to make a point or just making statements?

that was the point of the post: think of something that doesn't exist in reality and it is based on parts of different things in reality brought together, even if they are non-sensical, the base forms are from reality.

Granting that many have argued against this idea does not = logical disproof of the idea. How can you imagine a perfect island? You take the idea of an island and what perfection of it would be (the idea of happines found in heaven transplanted into the visiage of an island or a drink). Secondly, can you imagine a perfect island and what would be the standard of perfection but that which is the creator of the idea/form island. The mere idea that something can be perfected is enough to show that the idea came from somewhere outside of ye.

imagination is simply what I am talking about, if you can define a form of something that doesn't exist you have to do that from constituent parts of that which exists. If you can do that from outside of that which exists then please do demonstrate it in front of me so I can see it!!! Another question is how you know what I think of God and how I have come to know Him, experience him or why I experience him.

Further proof that you do not know what I believe and what occurs in my mind is found in the fact that I never once attended Sunday School. Arguments and not slander.

Under the Mercy,
Matthew S

Matt said...


When you say evolution, are you speaking in a sense that man descended from apes, or that evolution of any/all species has occured or is occuring throughout the span of time on this planet earth? If you are speaking about man descending from apes, know that Darwin's Theory of Evolution is just one THEORY. There are other theories.

"Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.

Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.

While the Church permits belief in either special creation or developmental creation on certain questions, it in no circumstances permits belief in atheistic evolution. " - Catholic Answers website

So I gues I have to agree with Matt when he says..."What is your point?"

Matthew S said...

people who don't understand the Church's position on evolution also don't understand that Copernicus and Galileo thought the same thing about the solar system. Galileo got excommunicated for what he believed because of the that and Copernicus didn't get excommunicated. Makes a difference in what the consequence is.

Under the Mercy,
Matthew S